Paul - I am very interested in researching the details of the convoy that carried the British 18th Division out to Halifax, Nova Scotia. I believe this convoy was designated Outward North 30 (ON 30) and included the vessels: Orcades, Oronsay, Andes, Sobiesky, Duchess of Atholl, Rena Del Pacifico, Warwick Castle and Durban Castle. I would be very interested in any stories/recollections or maybe ship postcards/photos that anyone may have of this convoy and that they would be kind enough to share with me please. If anyone is interested I have two lovely photos of the Orcades and the Oronsay.
Janet - >Paul, my Dad was on the Duchess of Atholl, but he used to talk of the Warwick & Durban Castles too, so I guess some of his mates were on them.
The only story I can share that springs to mind is that on the Duchess of Atholl, and in turn on the Mount Vernon, 2 blokes one of who I know to be "Budd Smith " the other was his schoolboy friend (?) used to sing and harmonise while playiong the harmonica and usually on deck ( as the temperatures were rising ) " South of the border down Mexico Way ". My Dad still got chocked up to his dying day whenever he heard it but always said " they're not a patch on Budd Smith & his mate !
Keith Andrews ( the little marvel ) helped me find "Budd" Smith's grave in Burma , he was from Fartown, Huddersfield and I hope to visit it in the next 2 or 3 years.
Paul, that is probably the last information you wanted, but there we are !
I do hope you have had a good Jubilee weekend , my dear Dad would have so loved to see all the jubilations and parties !
George - >Paul, First of all, to the readers of this "forum", I have been away for almost two weeks. We - my wife and I - attended a convention of United States Merchant Marine Veterans in Seattle, Washington. As we had never visited that area of this vast country, we spent several extra days sightseeing in the area.
To give you an idea of the distance, our westward flight was via Dallas/Fort Worth. Over four hours from Boston to DFW and then another four hours from DFW to Seattle! Returning, we had a non-stop flight, Seattle to Boston, and with the advantage of the jet-stream covered the distance is about four and a half hours! Nevertheless, a long trip spanning three time zones.
I, too, was impressed by the aerial photos of the convoy consisting of the WEST POINT, MOUNT VERNON, WAKEFIELD, and others. Of some interest is that those three vessels were owned and operated, prior to their conscription by the United States government, by the United States Lines company of New York In early October of 1941, when I went to New York looking for employment as a merchant marine officer, that same United
States Lines hired me and put me on the cargo-carrier AMERICAN LEADER.
It is entirely possibly that they could have put me aboard any one of those three ships as a "junior" watch officer. If so, I could have had a far different future than what resulted!
Paul, I have searched my material looking for information on convoy ON-30, and find nothing. Not even a mention of it. Predecessors to the ON convoys were designated as OB, but, again, no clue. There is a very good U-boat site at http://www.uboat.net Take a look at that, particularly the Phorums section where a number of knowledgeable individuals hold forth. It may be they can be of assistance.
Lesley - I know the Warwick Castle was part of WS14 leaving Scotland on 6th Dec 41 arriving in Java 3/4th Feb 42 - it went via South Africa (originally bound for the Middle East) not via Nova Scotia.
Could it have done 2 convoys?
Stuart - Yes, I think this is the same Warwick Castle (there was a sequence of them)
14th November 1942 Warwick Castle - sunk by U 413 in convoy MFK1
http://uboat.net/special/biggest.htm
14 Nov, 1942 HMS Warwick Castle (20.107 tons) a troop transport sunk by U-413 (Poel)
http://members.tripod.com/~merchantships/jimmcwilliamspage.html
She was returning home from North Africa on November 14th, 1942 when her convoy was attacked off the coast of Portugal. Winchester Castle was targeted by U-413, but the u-boat showed herself in the heavy sea, giving the troopship just enough time to take evasive action and avoid being hit. Unfortunately, Warwick Castle which was the next ship in line was not so lucky, and she was sunk by U-413 with the loss of 63 lives.
Tom - >Ron, I saw mention of Prince of Wales survivors being amalgamated with Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders and thought I would let you know that Royal Marine Bob Brown was with us in the 135 Regt. RA.I would welcome contact with him if possible. He was a survivor from the Prince of Wales and gave us some interesting talks of their exploits when chasing the German Battleships.
I wish to thank you and all others for the research and information and especially the pictures of the convoy. I was in the 135 Field Regt. RA.and travelled from Gourock to Halifax NS.on Sobieski, then to Singapore on Mount Vernon.Thanks for giving me the dates etc.and filling in gaps in my memory.
Keith - >Paul, I am very surprised that Ron has not been jumping up and down over this, although it would have nothing to do with my father's service in the Far East, I can think of at least six who would be more than interested. Some of them you know, some you don't.
Could you post the details on the fepow net, and I will forward to those that are interested, but who are not on the net, with credit to you. Convoy William Sail 12X was one of yours and much appreciated. In case no one has said it yet, thanks a million for the information, it is helping others. My father was posted to Malaya/Singapore in February 1939, so finding those troopships is another tale.
Ron - Having been away I missed the original email although Paul did write direct.
Now I'm back and in my delight at reading Paul's message, I fell off my chair, back is mending. Seriously though it will be hard to find as much on the journey to Halifax, the troops were more concerned with writing about the luxury of the American liners.
There are many connected with this Fepow Message Board and Fepow list who are very interested in Convoy ON-30, lets keep it an open debate which we can all participate in and share the information and perhaps Paul will put a similar article together which with his permission I will again put on the site.
Here's my pennyworth.
Although my father was 4th Royal Norfolks 'A' Company, by the time he left Britain he was Div H.Q. Bren Gunner. The 4th Royal Norfolk's sailed on the 'Andes' my father sailed on the 'Reno Del Pacifico' with Div. H.Q.
From my fathers notes.
'We left Blighty on the 28th October 1941 sailing from Liverpool on the Reno Del Pacifico (18,000 tons formerly Queen of the Pacific), although embarking with tropical gear, our was destination was unknown most thought it would be the desert of the Middle East. The 18th Division consisted of mainly East Anglian Territorials from Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire but there were also the 1st &q 5th Sherwood Foresters, 9th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers and the 5th Loyals from Lancashire. The journey was rough and seasickness on a crowded boat has its disadvantages but it can also help bind men together and spirits were high, we were off to show the enemy what we were made of, but under the bravado I was uncertain of what lay ahead. Halfway across the Atlantic our small British escort changed to a large American force including an aircraft carrier the Lexington, two heavy and two light cruisers and destroyers.
Arrived Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada, on the 8th November, we where only ashore a few minutes before being transferred to the U.S.S. Wakefield (27,500 tons) with 5.000 others, formerly being a luxury liner called Manhattan, our quarters had tiered beds, four to a tier, but we were not overcrowded.'
Hope this helps Paul.
John - I can confirm Lesley's information for the Warwick Castle as my father travelled on that ship. It left Gourock in Scotland and was number HMT.Z 16 apparently. From his book he wrote that "alongside was Empress of Australia with 3,500 men and on the port side was a tramp steamer City of Pretoria, closely followed by the Triolus. These two shops contained our transport" The Troilus also contained several steam engines and rolling stock destined for Iran. These had been converted from coal to oil working at Swindon.
They steamed into Freetown on Christmas Day. Here they learned that one of their escort ships, Ramillies, had sunk a U Boat which had been shadowing the convoy. They left Freetown on Boxing Day then arrived in Cape Town a few days later where they had a five day break. After a brief call at the Maldives they were then accompanied by the battleship Resolution for the rest of their journey to Java.
Paul - Hello Everybody, First of all I would like to thank Ron for sharing his fathers fascinating notes of the voyage out to Halifax, Nova Scotia.
I would also like to thank him for his help and encouragement to me in my research into the convoy that carried the British 18th Division out to Halifax.
Secondly, I thought this an ideal opportunity to explain a little of my interest in that Convoy. For quite a few years now I have had a great interest in looking into my late grandad Albert Morrell`s Army days, he served with the Royal Army Medical Corps 1941-1944. Albert attached to the 1/5th Sherwood Foresters, sailed with the 55th Brigade (18th Div.) aboard USS West Point from Halifax to Bombay and then again from Bombay to Singapore.
Albert was to be one of the lucky few, he came away from Singapore with the West Point, why ? I`ll never be sure, I can only assume that being RAMC he was kept aboard to help with the civilian evacuees. Yes that is right, he wasn`t a FEPOW. Albert returned to india, there he would have learned of the fall of Singapore. I have often wondered how he felt about the comrades he left behind.
Albert later went on to serve in North Africa.
All I had to begin my research into his Army days was his Army paybook, a few photos, his "Crossing The Line" certificate issued on the USS West Point, November 24th 1941 ( An American Ship? November `41??) and a big mystery.
I have grown up with stories of his Army days, of his time in North Africa and the Suez Canal Zone, though I only really recall hearing about Singapore from my nanna after he had sadly passed away in 1991, he was 87. Of course, since getting stuck into my research I have learnt with great interest of the British 18th Division, Singapore and the Far East Prisoners. Over the last few years I have read and continue to read with great interest and respect many books written by and about Far East Prisoners Of War, I feel very privileged to have had the chance to talk to quite a few of these gentlemen and now feel proud to know them as friends (a few were even on the West Point at the same time as Albert.) I fully realise that had Albert disembarked on Singapore, there is a very good chance that I would not be here today.
In January this year I put the finishing touches to a book I had put together of "Albert`s War". As Ron quite rightly pointed out it is very hard to find any information relating to the convoy out to Halifax, I struggled.
This lack of information has made me determined to find out all I can about this "early chapter" of the FEPOW story. I am hoping a trip to the Public Record Office at Kew in September will prove fruitful and add to the fascinating material I have already been lucky enough to put together.
I would be very interested in any stories/recollections that anyone may have of this convoy and that they would be kind enough to share with me please. Thank you very much for stories already shared, Janet, David and Ron.
In conclusion I would like to say, yes I would be delighted to put an article together for the site, I can`t promise you when, but I can promise you a very interesting article. As they say, watch this space.
Janet - >Paul, the only story I can share on Halifax is that when my Dad arrived on the Duchess of Atholl he was totally gobsmacked at the number of vehichles at the dockside, they were owned by the dockers and he thought they were all doing " very nicely thank you " to be able to afford to own a car , he also promised himself that when he got home he would get himself a car or van,which he did, and thought that he had arrived !!!!
Also this next bit won't applly to Albert's Story as my Dad went off on the Mount Vernon, but dads immediate Sgt who was actually his best mate was a Herbert "LLOYDY" Lloyd, by all accounts Lloydy was a great drinker and mans man, at Halifax ( the old chap was addament) only Sgt's and above were allowed ashore and it was for a very short amount of time too, well when Lloydy hadn't arrived back by the time he should have done Captain Feathers ( who my Dad worshiped ) asked him where he thought he may be, I guess the old man said that they would do well to guess in a bar somewhere, so Capt Feathers sent the old man out to look for him ! FORTUNATELY he found him easily cos he had popped in the nearest bar and stayed a little longer than anticipated ! I am reliably informed that Capt Feathers was pissed off bigtime, and told him if he had still been at Warminster he'd have been put on a charge, but let him off cos it was his birthday !!
Can anyone recall which ship " The Tiger" was on that was sunk enroute to wherever after the Railway?, I knew an old chap from the next village who nearly drowned after they were sunk but an Ozzie dived under the life raft and released his trapped foot, sadly Ted died a few years ago so I have no way of knowing.
Also have any of you lot done a pilgrimage back to any of the areas ?, I am going to try to go to Thailand next year and Burma in the future and wondered if anyone has any tips please ?
Janet - Paul, The only story I can share on Halifax is that when my Dad arrived on the Duchess of Atholl he was totally gobsmacked at the number of vehichles at the dockside, they were owned by the dockers and he thought they were all doing " very nicely thank you " to be able to afford to own a car , he also promised himself that when he got home he would get himself a car or van,which he did, and thought that he had arrived !!!!
Also this next bit won't applly to Albert's Story as my Dad went off on the Mount Vernon, but dads immediate Sgt who was actually his best mate was a Herbert "LLOYDY" Lloyd, by all accounts Lloydy was a great drinker and mans man, at Halifax ( the old chap was addament) only Sgt's and above were allowed ashore and it was for a very short amount of time too, well when Lloydy hadn't arrived back by the time he should have done Captain Feathers ( who my Dad worshiped ) asked him where he thought he may be, I guess the old man said that they would do well to guess in a bar somewhere, so Capt Feathers sent the old man out to look for him ! FORTUNATELY he found him easily cos he had popped in the nearest bar and stayed a little longer than anticipated ! I am reliably informed that Capt Feathers was pissed off bigtime, and told him if he had still been at Warminster he'd have been put on a charge, but let him off cos it was his birthday !!
Can anyone recall which ship " The Tiger" was on that was sunk enroute to wherever after the Railway?, I knew an old chap from the next village who nearly drowned after they were sunk but an Ozzie dived under the life raft and released his trapped foot, sadly Ted died a few years ago so I have no way of knowing.
Also have any of you lot done a pilgrimage back to any of the areas ?, I am going to try to go to Thailand next year and Burma in the future and wondered if anyone has any tips please ?
